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	<title>Comments for winJade</title>
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	<link>http://winjade.net</link>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by Shane Nokes</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2923</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Nokes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2923</guid>
		<description>Not really butchering it.

Windows itself has been evolving to become more data-centric over the last decade.

This is just taking that work and finally applying it to the mobile arena.

Haven&#039;t you noticed how lately Microsoft has been working to move us away from the idea of standard data storage and move us more to virtual/abstract data storage concepts?

Libraries are a big part of that strategy. They move us away from the idea of having different locations for everything and having a central data store that we look into to find our content.

This is the same idea, moved to a more mobile platform. Taking away the need for a traditional file browser and moving to an abstracted data store with views onto our content.

I&#039;d be surprised if they don&#039;t really play up this metaphor in Windows 8 to be honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really butchering it.</p>
<p>Windows itself has been evolving to become more data-centric over the last decade.</p>
<p>This is just taking that work and finally applying it to the mobile arena.</p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t you noticed how lately Microsoft has been working to move us away from the idea of standard data storage and move us more to virtual/abstract data storage concepts?</p>
<p>Libraries are a big part of that strategy. They move us away from the idea of having different locations for everything and having a central data store that we look into to find our content.</p>
<p>This is the same idea, moved to a more mobile platform. Taking away the need for a traditional file browser and moving to an abstracted data store with views onto our content.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be surprised if they don&#8217;t really play up this metaphor in Windows 8 to be honest.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by Chris</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2906</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2906</guid>
		<description>* Bing
    * MSN
    * Windows Live
    * XBOX Live
    * Zune Marketplace

Bing is a search engine. I have since made it my default since I&#039;m not trusting Google. Its beyond what a search engine is all about. The ads are unique and entertaining. Its also more personal, as you can search for something, and find related searches and now, you can find recent searches. 

I remember when my family got its first computer in mid 1999. first internet service we ever had was MSN. I remember when MSN was at its hight back in 2003/2004. Even remember January 2003 or 2004 when MSN had its first redesign (ditched the purple/blue for the more XP media center 2005 like color scheme. Flash forward to 2010 and its the same old thing, just refresh to a web 2.0 fell. Do you remember the old msn promos from 1995? It was like an oscar party?

Windows Live. alright. Even after five years I still don&#039;t quite get it. Windows Live? So eveything about windows will be live and up to date? May be that was the point. I do agree though. MSN is a great content portal. Surly they could have come up with a more unique name for &quot;windows Live&quot;

Same goes for Xbox Live. though it makes more sence in gamine

Zune marketplace. Alright, this is an name that is very outdated. Hell, there has not even been any marketing for the zune market place, let alone the zune player. 

As for the whole &quot;windows phone&quot; debate. If you look at the iPhone, it uses a mobile, striped down version of mac OSX, doubled &quot;iphone OS&quot; Its still OSX. Same goes for Windows phone. Its ment to be a companion for your Windows 7 laptop or desktop, and if done right both should integrate and stream sleamsly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>* Bing<br />
    * MSN<br />
    * Windows Live<br />
    * XBOX Live<br />
    * Zune Marketplace</p>
<p>Bing is a search engine. I have since made it my default since I&#8217;m not trusting Google. Its beyond what a search engine is all about. The ads are unique and entertaining. Its also more personal, as you can search for something, and find related searches and now, you can find recent searches. </p>
<p>I remember when my family got its first computer in mid 1999. first internet service we ever had was MSN. I remember when MSN was at its hight back in 2003/2004. Even remember January 2003 or 2004 when MSN had its first redesign (ditched the purple/blue for the more XP media center 2005 like color scheme. Flash forward to 2010 and its the same old thing, just refresh to a web 2.0 fell. Do you remember the old msn promos from 1995? It was like an oscar party?</p>
<p>Windows Live. alright. Even after five years I still don&#8217;t quite get it. Windows Live? So eveything about windows will be live and up to date? May be that was the point. I do agree though. MSN is a great content portal. Surly they could have come up with a more unique name for &#8220;windows Live&#8221;</p>
<p>Same goes for Xbox Live. though it makes more sence in gamine</p>
<p>Zune marketplace. Alright, this is an name that is very outdated. Hell, there has not even been any marketing for the zune market place, let alone the zune player. </p>
<p>As for the whole &#8220;windows phone&#8221; debate. If you look at the iPhone, it uses a mobile, striped down version of mac OSX, doubled &#8220;iphone OS&#8221; Its still OSX. Same goes for Windows phone. Its ment to be a companion for your Windows 7 laptop or desktop, and if done right both should integrate and stream sleamsly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by Bryant Zadegan</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2904</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryant Zadegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2904</guid>
		<description>Only because you&#039;re butchering what windows in Windows actually means :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only because you&#8217;re butchering what windows in Windows actually means <img src='http://winjade.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by Shane Nokes</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2900</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Nokes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2900</guid>
		<description>Bryant, I mentioned this over Twitter, but here goes.

It hasn&#039;t lost any meaning. There are still Windows in this UI. Each one of those task panes (named since they resemble window panes) is a view out onto your content, just like a window out into the world.

The metaphor still holds, thus it still has value ;)


Simplest explanation I can give that still makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryant, I mentioned this over Twitter, but here goes.</p>
<p>It hasn&#8217;t lost any meaning. There are still Windows in this UI. Each one of those task panes (named since they resemble window panes) is a view out onto your content, just like a window out into the world.</p>
<p>The metaphor still holds, thus it still has value <img src='http://winjade.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Simplest explanation I can give that still makes sense.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by Bryant Zadegan</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2895</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryant Zadegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2895</guid>
		<description>@stitch they&#039;ve been up since 3.

@MarkKB I fully understand the roles of the three properties. My point is that there&#039;s no reason for them to be three separate properties because MSN can easily fit under, say, Bing without any problems a la iGoogle or Google News. Keeping them separate leads to confusion amongst laypeople, especially those who I&#039;ve had the pleasure of speaking with.

Mac OS and Mac OS X still carried the same general user interface design despite flushing the internals. Windows Phone 7 is so different from Windows Mobile 6.5 in how it fundamentally operates (Windows has always been a function-centric brand up until WP7) that it shouldn&#039;t carry the Windows name at all. It doesn&#039;t have windows because that&#039;s not how it works. In WP7, each task dominates the stage; there is no function-centric multitasking as Windows has allowed since its inception.

That&#039;s the crux of my argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@stitch they&#8217;ve been up since 3.</p>
<p>@MarkKB I fully understand the roles of the three properties. My point is that there&#8217;s no reason for them to be three separate properties because MSN can easily fit under, say, Bing without any problems a la iGoogle or Google News. Keeping them separate leads to confusion amongst laypeople, especially those who I&#8217;ve had the pleasure of speaking with.</p>
<p>Mac OS and Mac OS X still carried the same general user interface design despite flushing the internals. Windows Phone 7 is so different from Windows Mobile 6.5 in how it fundamentally operates (Windows has always been a function-centric brand up until WP7) that it shouldn&#8217;t carry the Windows name at all. It doesn&#8217;t have windows because that&#8217;s not how it works. In WP7, each task dominates the stage; there is no function-centric multitasking as Windows has allowed since its inception.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the crux of my argument.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by stitch</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2894</link>
		<dc:creator>stitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2894</guid>
		<description>.............the forums are still down</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.the forums are still down</p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by MarkKB</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2892</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2892</guid>
		<description>MSN is a content portal.
Windows Live are services that provide an extension to Windows.
Bing is a search engine.

How is that confusing?

Windows Phone 7 is the successor to Windows Mobile, the last version of which was 6.5 - in the same way that Mac OS X is the successor to the Mac OS, despite sharing none of the underpinnings.

As for the name &quot;Windows&quot;, I&#039;d argue that WP7S has windows in the same way WinMo had windows, except WinMo had explicit titlebars to show that they&#039;re windows. Nothing&#039;s really changed in that regard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MSN is a content portal.<br />
Windows Live are services that provide an extension to Windows.<br />
Bing is a search engine.</p>
<p>How is that confusing?</p>
<p>Windows Phone 7 is the successor to Windows Mobile, the last version of which was 6.5 &#8211; in the same way that Mac OS X is the successor to the Mac OS, despite sharing none of the underpinnings.</p>
<p>As for the name &#8220;Windows&#8221;, I&#8217;d argue that WP7S has windows in the same way WinMo had windows, except WinMo had explicit titlebars to show that they&#8217;re windows. Nothing&#8217;s really changed in that regard.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by Bryant Zadegan</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2888</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryant Zadegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2888</guid>
		<description>Well the thing with brand names is that you can&#039;t just call anything any random name. You can see some amount of strategy with the Bing name and with the Windows Live name, but there doesn&#039;t seem to be any reason for keeping MSN as its own property.

Ditto goes for Windows Phone 7. The Windows name is attributed to a certain feel and to certain capabilities. Calling anything &quot;Windows&quot; just serves to destroy that uniform look and feel, which erodes familiarity. That&#039;s the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the thing with brand names is that you can&#8217;t just call anything any random name. You can see some amount of strategy with the Bing name and with the Windows Live name, but there doesn&#8217;t seem to be any reason for keeping MSN as its own property.</p>
<p>Ditto goes for Windows Phone 7. The Windows name is attributed to a certain feel and to certain capabilities. Calling anything &#8220;Windows&#8221; just serves to destroy that uniform look and feel, which erodes familiarity. That&#8217;s the problem.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? by sbrown23</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/comment-page-1/#comment-2885</link>
		<dc:creator>sbrown23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://winjade.net/2010/03/microsoft-branding-mess/#comment-2885</guid>
		<description>Bryant - Not sure why Windows Phone could be potentially harmful to the Windows name.  The Windows brand has been through the worst period in it&#039;s history (in the general public&#039;s eye) with Vista and Windows Mobile 6.x.  Thoroughly hammered in the press, and trashed by Apple constantly in commercials.  The brand, though, seems to have transcended the negative publicity.  Sure, Mac OS X has gained a couple of points in marketshare, but Windows is still &gt;90% of the market.  Mindshare is on the rebound with Windows 7.  I don&#039;t see why Microsoft WOULDN&#039;T leverage the name for Windows Phone.  Zune is dead in the water from a device perspective.  I own one, and love it, but face it, it&#039;s never gonna be a device brand as popular as iPod.  I think they are right to kill off the device and sell it as a service on a Windows Phone branded device (along with Xbox, and Windows).

As for why it should be called &quot;Windows&quot; Phone when there are not any Windows present, I&#039;d guess that MSFT would argue that: 1) it&#039;s providing a window into your data; 2) that the window is larger than the device itself, hence the &quot;panoramic&quot; view.  I think the MSFT images showing the device with the UI exploded out the sides demonstrates this well, that the entire left-to-right thing is the window that you view a portion at a time.  I could take or leave it either way, but I don&#039;t think Zune Phone would sell the platform, and yet another new name would probably leave the platform dead in the water.  In terms of operating systems, MSFT has been consistent with using Windows as the brand across nearly all classes of devices for over 2 decades.  Windows 3.x, 9x, NT, CE, Embedded, and so on.

I dunno, if I was Microsoft, and making what by all accounts is a last ditch effort to maintain and grow relevance in the mobile space, I&#039;d use the most powerful brand I&#039;ve got.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryant &#8211; Not sure why Windows Phone could be potentially harmful to the Windows name.  The Windows brand has been through the worst period in it&#8217;s history (in the general public&#8217;s eye) with Vista and Windows Mobile 6.x.  Thoroughly hammered in the press, and trashed by Apple constantly in commercials.  The brand, though, seems to have transcended the negative publicity.  Sure, Mac OS X has gained a couple of points in marketshare, but Windows is still &gt;90% of the market.  Mindshare is on the rebound with Windows 7.  I don&#8217;t see why Microsoft WOULDN&#8217;T leverage the name for Windows Phone.  Zune is dead in the water from a device perspective.  I own one, and love it, but face it, it&#8217;s never gonna be a device brand as popular as iPod.  I think they are right to kill off the device and sell it as a service on a Windows Phone branded device (along with Xbox, and Windows).</p>
<p>As for why it should be called &#8220;Windows&#8221; Phone when there are not any Windows present, I&#8217;d guess that MSFT would argue that: 1) it&#8217;s providing a window into your data; 2) that the window is larger than the device itself, hence the &#8220;panoramic&#8221; view.  I think the MSFT images showing the device with the UI exploded out the sides demonstrates this well, that the entire left-to-right thing is the window that you view a portion at a time.  I could take or leave it either way, but I don&#8217;t think Zune Phone would sell the platform, and yet another new name would probably leave the platform dead in the water.  In terms of operating systems, MSFT has been consistent with using Windows as the brand across nearly all classes of devices for over 2 decades.  Windows 3.x, 9x, NT, CE, Embedded, and so on.</p>
<p>I dunno, if I was Microsoft, and making what by all accounts is a last ditch effort to maintain and grow relevance in the mobile space, I&#8217;d use the most powerful brand I&#8217;ve got.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why &#8220;Bing&#8221; might be a name destined to fail by Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? &#171; winJade</title>
		<link>http://winjade.net/2009/05/why_bing_name_destined_to_fail/comment-page-1/#comment-2873</link>
		<dc:creator>Microsoft and Branding: What the heck? &#171; winJade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aeroxp.org/2009/05/why_bing_name_destined_to_fail/#comment-2873</guid>
		<description>[...] Bing was officially launched June 3, 2009. Before Bing, Microsoft’s search efforts started under MSN before progressing to Live, Windows Live, and then back to Live again in the form of “Live Search&quot;. The name itself was chosen because the guys with Kumo (the testing name for Bing) “needed a brand that was as fresh and new as [their] approach. It needed to be like the product — optimized for the Internet.” In other words, it’s yet another web 2.0 name, though thankfully, I seem to have at least been somewhat wrong about the name being a major problem. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bing was officially launched June 3, 2009. Before Bing, Microsoft’s search efforts started under MSN before progressing to Live, Windows Live, and then back to Live again in the form of “Live Search&quot;. The name itself was chosen because the guys with Kumo (the testing name for Bing) “needed a brand that was as fresh and new as [their] approach. It needed to be like the product — optimized for the Internet.” In other words, it’s yet another web 2.0 name, though thankfully, I seem to have at least been somewhat wrong about the name being a major problem. [...]</p>
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